There’s a fairly seismic news event happening on Tuesday afternoon, one that has the potential to blot out the rest of the media landscape like an eclipse. Hence, it’s the perfect time for a good old fashioned news dump. You, the Rabbit Hole reader, can once again publicly utter something about this state that you don’t actually want anyone to know about, because people will almost certainly be paying attention to somehing else. So go ahead: Drop your unpopular opinion about North Carolina in the comments. Nobody will ever know.
The state is oriented wrong. It should be portrait, not landscape, to reduce travel time between mountains and ocean. Apart from that, I wouldn't change a thing.
It's also idiotic that Winston-Salem has no Amtrak service. A best I can tell, it's because Governor Morehead wanted the train to go past his house in like 1840.
I second this one. It’s a crime the triangle has no light rail or even a robust public transportation system. I tried to commute to Raleigh and there were no direct routes. Everything stopped and had to change busses in RTP.
Since 2009 I have been driving between Beaufort and Little Switzerland often. The rudest drivers are between Raleigh and Chapel Hill. Yes - you are so correct, the Triangle traffic sucks. On the other hand - the most thoughtful and courteous drivers are in Asheville.
I would think this was a VERY popular opinion. I tried to take the train from Morehead City to Jacksonville, Florida and it wa a 24 hour train trip but when I looked at it from Raleigh to Florida, it was only 8 hours. WHY?!?!?
The process is largely the same - there will still be FBI background checks at point of sale and there will still be a "cool off' period. The change in process doesn't mean felons and violent criminals suddenly get access.
The difference is the sheriff is no longer involved. In some rare cases this may mean that crimes that flew under the FBI background check get detected and if appropriate mean that individual doesn't get a gun. But this is extremely rare and if you weren't getting a gun before, you still aren't getting one.
However, the biggest piece is that by removing sheriff discretion you no longer have an individual who can deny a person a gun because they are, for example, black. Several county sheriffs have been sued because they disproportionately deny guns to black Americans. I'm reminded of how Republicans pushed for looser gun control in the 70s and 80s and then were shocked that "access for all" turned into "access for all" when black America, particularly the Black Panthers, started buying guns.
I do not condone the use of guns and generally disapprove of them - if I could click my fingers and remove them all from existence then I would. But as they are here and accessible then they should be equally accessible to all who are legally permitted.
I fear I must disagree with you here, Dan...the only thing keeping the OBX from being heaven on Earth are all the "come from away" types. The Banks should be accessible only to North Carolinians, and with a maximum cap of about half what you'll find out there in summer. There's no better place to really feel away from the madding world.
I'll grant you ocracoke for "away from the madding crowd." the rest...maybe I'm biased having grown up on the gulf coast. I've been out east for over a decade now, but the calmer waters are what I look for. Bird Shoals, Shackleford Banks...that's the sweet spot.
Overpopulated, which causes them to be overrated. When I was young in the early 1960s it was much more sparsely populated with small beach houses and one main road on the beach. A few restaurants, small family run motels and hotels, and few amusements. It was bliss!!
Love the unspoiled beach aspect, but I've never been a fan of atlantic-side beaches generally. Current too strong, cold-water currents (at least north of lookout)...I'll take SOBX beaches over OBX any day.
Agree, in that the beaches on SE NC are better. Way less crowded, way easier to drive to, and the Gulf Stream directly hitting them means warmer water.
Durham is not nearly as progressive as it pretends to be, and won't be until it stops letting Duke have outsized influence on the town. Or until you can ride a bike from one side to the other without risking your life the entire time.
-The platonic ideal barbecue plate is eastern-style whole hog with western-style sauce. (While we're here, calling western sauce "tomato-based" is pretty misleading; anywhere else in the country it would still be considered a vinegar-forward sauce.)
-The cardinal should not be the state bird. Sharing a state bird with one other state is cowardly; sharing the cardinal with six other states is unconscionable. My vote would be for the Pine Siskin but I'd entertain any reasonable option not already used by another state.
-State flag is terrible. Not original enough, and text on a flag is always a net negative. Scrap it and start from scratch.
I wonder where we are in the "pecking" order of state bird selection? If we were first, then great, otherwise, I agree...I haven't checked if it's used elsewhere, but what about the sea gull?
1. The top date on the state flag needs to be changed to May 31, 1775. Yeah, yeah Mecklenburg Resolves isn't as snazzy a name as Meck Dec, but it's real and it's still the most radical of the colonial responses to Concord and Lexington. You don't have to say "I declare independence" to declare independence and the state should honor it.
2. The best barbecue sauce is a blend of tomato-based and vinegar-based sauces, and more barbecue places should offer it as a unified North Carolina sauce.
As much as I love eastern NC BBQ (whole hog, vinegar-pepper sauce) above all the pretenders, I just can't abide by some of the truly awful slaw being foisted on us at many eastern NC joints. Some is chopped so fine it may as well be slimy sand doused with vinegar. I'm probably going to get skewered for this but here I stand.
Hoping this is only more our area of the state. Love the folks here, but sooo much trash along the roads. One neighbor put up a trail cam to catch people throwing stuff out of their cars. Why do we not insist on the roads being maintained with painted lines we can actually see.
I think it's an Alamance County thing only! I used to order cheese dogs when I went to the beach and be so disappointed when it was a HOT DOG with cheese on it.
Bullet train from Charlotte to Raleigh would elevate the state, linking brain power from the states two largest metropolitan areas and fertilizing lord knows what kind of regional business and cultural creativity. Get behind it!
Too permissive with U-Turns. In Virginia, where I am from, they are rare. To take a U-Turn is a sign that something has gone horribly wrong. You do everything you can to avoid them, because the psychological implications are immense. When one takes a U-turn it's a time of reflection that one takes solemnly, with pangs of regret. "What led me to take this U-turn, and how can I avoid it in the future?" you ask yourself.
Down here we make them the only way to leave certain malls. For years I had to whisper to myself, "It's not your fault... it's not your fault."
PS: Also sometimes we have those weird street lights with two red lights at the top, one yellow light, and one green light. The red lights are always red at the same time, so they can easily be replaced by one red light. What's up with that?
The state treasurer’s office is or needs to take over more town /cities finances. Most small towns do not have the money or lack the skill to run their own services.
The places that make pretty pictures in brochures advertising NC are too expensive for your average North Carolinian to ever visit. Also, BBQ is BBQ--all good, no matter if it’s East or west.
I kinda like where you are going with #2. I'd restate it as "Beach Music" isn't a valid genre although North Carolinians seem to think it is. It's more of a 'vibe,' a time and place you listen to / dance to music more than a musically separate genre.
The only thing worse than the city of Charlotte itself, are the self righteous original "Charlotteans" that think their special for being born here. B!t£h they recruited me, moved me and rewarded me to be here because this city has no talent.
We welcome people from other states to move to the great state of NC. I just wish they wouldn't bring habits and norms here that caused the place they moved from to be an undesirable place to live.
New to NC, and the “true” South - I’m from OK, which, contrary to the belief of most Okies, is actually the Southwest, but I digress... What is the deal with people calling you “Mr.” followed by your First Name? It’s infantile. Worse, if you have a first name that can be used as a last name, it’s just confusing as hell. Just stop. My name is Louis, not “Mr. Lewis.”
I don’t think CookOut got the memo a few years back when the state legislature didn’t renew that stupid “all hamburgers must be cooked well-done” law that was on the books for years. All hamburger patties from them taste like charcoal, when they don’t HAVE to.
The two Carolinas were likely not legally separated properly. So there should probably be some kind of convention or conference to settle it, or else Charleston is still the capital
As a transplant who has lived in NC for 25 years, I still don’t get all the sweetness--sweet tea, sweetheart, sweet potatoes, Krispy Kreme, sweet potato pie . . . . NC cooking and NC culture are overcome with sweetness.
Time to dissolve the ACC and break up the "Big Four". Duke to the Big East, UNC to the SEC, NC State to the Big 12, and Wake Forest to a Group of 5 conference (AAC, Conference USA, Sun Belt).
North Carolina is not geographically in the South. People seem to think it's closer to Florida. You'll find this out the first time the temperature dips into the 30's.
Obviously, the folks who created the Mason Dixon line only knew politics and didn't know much about geography or the weather, not that they would back then.
I would never kid around about Gas-town. Ranlo, Lowell, Spencer Mountain - that’s fine to kid around about them. But not Gtown (the soon-to-be capital of the Tar Heel State).
The state is oriented wrong. It should be portrait, not landscape, to reduce travel time between mountains and ocean. Apart from that, I wouldn't change a thing.
Plus, we would be giving the finger to Virginia...
he said unpopular opinion
just bear in mind if you flip it to portrait, now it's like california and then you have to deal with californians moving here
Boiled peanuts are gross.
And kudzu is pretty when it’s not in my yard.
Kubzu blossom sorbet is the bomb!
Wait. What?!?
And so is kudzu honey, which is purple.
There is no passenger train service running from eastern NC to Asheville. And the traffic in and around urban areas—especially the Triangle sucks
It's also idiotic that Winston-Salem has no Amtrak service. A best I can tell, it's because Governor Morehead wanted the train to go past his house in like 1840.
If that's true that's just a legendary level of petty
Could definetly be something worth looking into for a future entry!
I second this one. It’s a crime the triangle has no light rail or even a robust public transportation system. I tried to commute to Raleigh and there were no direct routes. Everything stopped and had to change busses in RTP.
Since 2009 I have been driving between Beaufort and Little Switzerland often. The rudest drivers are between Raleigh and Chapel Hill. Yes - you are so correct, the Triangle traffic sucks. On the other hand - the most thoughtful and courteous drivers are in Asheville.
I would think this was a VERY popular opinion. I tried to take the train from Morehead City to Jacksonville, Florida and it wa a 24 hour train trip but when I looked at it from Raleigh to Florida, it was only 8 hours. WHY?!?!?
Probably should mention here that there was an actual North Carolina news dump right in the middle of today's proceedings: https://www.axios.com/local/raleigh/2023/04/04/nc-democrat-flip-republican-legislative-supermajority
I'm pretty upset we nixed the permitting process for handguns. How can that be positive?
The process is largely the same - there will still be FBI background checks at point of sale and there will still be a "cool off' period. The change in process doesn't mean felons and violent criminals suddenly get access.
The difference is the sheriff is no longer involved. In some rare cases this may mean that crimes that flew under the FBI background check get detected and if appropriate mean that individual doesn't get a gun. But this is extremely rare and if you weren't getting a gun before, you still aren't getting one.
However, the biggest piece is that by removing sheriff discretion you no longer have an individual who can deny a person a gun because they are, for example, black. Several county sheriffs have been sued because they disproportionately deny guns to black Americans. I'm reminded of how Republicans pushed for looser gun control in the 70s and 80s and then were shocked that "access for all" turned into "access for all" when black America, particularly the Black Panthers, started buying guns.
I do not condone the use of guns and generally disapprove of them - if I could click my fingers and remove them all from existence then I would. But as they are here and accessible then they should be equally accessible to all who are legally permitted.
interesting. this depth of reporting was missing. I appreciate you filling in the blanks here.
Brilliant
It is too hot in the summer and always has been
It’s not the heat - it’s the humidity! 🤣
As a child of the '60s I honestly don't think it was this hot for this long when I was a kid. I remember snow in April and November.
the outer banks are sorely overrated
I fear I must disagree with you here, Dan...the only thing keeping the OBX from being heaven on Earth are all the "come from away" types. The Banks should be accessible only to North Carolinians, and with a maximum cap of about half what you'll find out there in summer. There's no better place to really feel away from the madding world.
I'll grant you ocracoke for "away from the madding crowd." the rest...maybe I'm biased having grown up on the gulf coast. I've been out east for over a decade now, but the calmer waters are what I look for. Bird Shoals, Shackleford Banks...that's the sweet spot.
Overpopulated, which causes them to be overrated. When I was young in the early 1960s it was much more sparsely populated with small beach houses and one main road on the beach. A few restaurants, small family run motels and hotels, and few amusements. It was bliss!!
Strong disagree here. There are largest stretches of unspoiled beaches on the east coast. It’s a surfing and kite surfing Mecca.
There are too many Virginians though.
Love the unspoiled beach aspect, but I've never been a fan of atlantic-side beaches generally. Current too strong, cold-water currents (at least north of lookout)...I'll take SOBX beaches over OBX any day.
Agree, in that the beaches on SE NC are better. Way less crowded, way easier to drive to, and the Gulf Stream directly hitting them means warmer water.
this man gets it
Oh, hell, yes.
Durham is not nearly as progressive as it pretends to be, and won't be until it stops letting Duke have outsized influence on the town. Or until you can ride a bike from one side to the other without risking your life the entire time.
-The platonic ideal barbecue plate is eastern-style whole hog with western-style sauce. (While we're here, calling western sauce "tomato-based" is pretty misleading; anywhere else in the country it would still be considered a vinegar-forward sauce.)
-The cardinal should not be the state bird. Sharing a state bird with one other state is cowardly; sharing the cardinal with six other states is unconscionable. My vote would be for the Pine Siskin but I'd entertain any reasonable option not already used by another state.
-State flag is terrible. Not original enough, and text on a flag is always a net negative. Scrap it and start from scratch.
How did we let SC get the Carolina wren?
I wonder where we are in the "pecking" order of state bird selection? If we were first, then great, otherwise, I agree...I haven't checked if it's used elsewhere, but what about the sea gull?
It takes far too long to get from Wilmington to Kitty Hawk!
And we don't pay our teachers enough.
1. The top date on the state flag needs to be changed to May 31, 1775. Yeah, yeah Mecklenburg Resolves isn't as snazzy a name as Meck Dec, but it's real and it's still the most radical of the colonial responses to Concord and Lexington. You don't have to say "I declare independence" to declare independence and the state should honor it.
2. The best barbecue sauce is a blend of tomato-based and vinegar-based sauces, and more barbecue places should offer it as a unified North Carolina sauce.
#2 a bridge too far
As much as I love eastern NC BBQ (whole hog, vinegar-pepper sauce) above all the pretenders, I just can't abide by some of the truly awful slaw being foisted on us at many eastern NC joints. Some is chopped so fine it may as well be slimy sand doused with vinegar. I'm probably going to get skewered for this but here I stand.
agreed, how -- in an agricultural state -- is our bbq so good and our cole slaw so, so very bad
Came to say this, except I'll take it further: Cole slaw just plain sucks. It's gross tasting and even looks gross.
People who have lived here for two months and now want to change everything about NC need to move
Hoping this is only more our area of the state. Love the folks here, but sooo much trash along the roads. One neighbor put up a trail cam to catch people throwing stuff out of their cars. Why do we not insist on the roads being maintained with painted lines we can actually see.
Insist to who?
OMG you should see Alabama! Cripes! They must have missed that native american on that commericila in the 70's? Who knew litter was still a thing?
Yes! He literally cried in the commercial. So effective.
HAHAHAHAH check out my piece over on Dixieland, the piece about snakes, you might get a laugh.
If you wanna see it really bad, check out American Samoa. They throw trash on the ground like it's totally, totally normal there.
Whispers “sweet tea is maybe slightly overrated”, is immediately pulled into a fiery chasm in the earth by a million sweet little old grandma hands.
You mean diabetes in a glass? Can't stand the stuff!
40-weight?
I don’t know how many more years I can do a real Christmas tree, Jeremy.
Brunswick stew is not good at all. Same for sweet tea.
Blasphemy!
50% agreement. The first part...
I'm with Stuart:
Brunswick stew is terrible.
Sweet Tea is delicious.
Why are the people in eastern NC so obsessed with those weird ass bright red hot dogs? It makes me irrationally angry
lol.
i don't know if this is Alamance County thing or not, but do you also get irrationally angry at CHEESE dogs?!
not hot dogs with cheese on them. a hot dog bun with a strip of cheese IN IT and nothing else except mustard or toppings.
I've never heard of that! But as a cheese lover who doesn't eat hot dogs, I'm totally on board with it!
I think it's an Alamance County thing only! I used to order cheese dogs when I went to the beach and be so disappointed when it was a HOT DOG with cheese on it.
Proof here:
https://zackshotdogs.com/menus/
And yeah, they're great! Especially if you get the hot dog bun steamed.
Bullet train from Charlotte to Raleigh would elevate the state, linking brain power from the states two largest metropolitan areas and fertilizing lord knows what kind of regional business and cultural creativity. Get behind it!
Texas, Ohio and Florida plates should only be allowed access to the right hand lane of I-95 and I-77. No other lanes and no secondary roads.
State Bird - I nominate the "Mall Parking Lot Gull"
Too permissive with U-Turns. In Virginia, where I am from, they are rare. To take a U-Turn is a sign that something has gone horribly wrong. You do everything you can to avoid them, because the psychological implications are immense. When one takes a U-turn it's a time of reflection that one takes solemnly, with pangs of regret. "What led me to take this U-turn, and how can I avoid it in the future?" you ask yourself.
Down here we make them the only way to leave certain malls. For years I had to whisper to myself, "It's not your fault... it's not your fault."
PS: Also sometimes we have those weird street lights with two red lights at the top, one yellow light, and one green light. The red lights are always red at the same time, so they can easily be replaced by one red light. What's up with that?
1. Coke is better than Pepsi.
2. Sweet Tea is gross
3. Cookout food is only great because of the prices. The food is just "fine."
4. Although Eastern NC BBQ is easily the best, South Carolina mustard sauce is better than western NC.
5. Krispy Kreme is good but it's a bit overrated. There are a lot better donuts out there.
Cookout has food? I thought it was only shakes... 😉
I don’t understand the Cheerwine thing at all. It’s a…fine soda.
The state treasurer’s office is or needs to take over more town /cities finances. Most small towns do not have the money or lack the skill to run their own services.
South Carolina BBQ is waaaaay better than any North Carolina BBQ.
Nope
Bryan Bryan Bryan. Facts are facts, and the fact is SC BBQ is yellow-slathered garbage that even most sandlappers won't eat. NC BBQ is the GOAT.
Not in this time-space continuum it ain't
Nope. Eastern style barbecue is the bomb.
Maybe in Charleston (Rodney Scott, Lewis, etc) but just in that one town.
Coke is exponentially better than Pepsi.
Also, the fact that Horneytown, NC and Climax, NC are only 30 minutes apart is not nearly as well known as it should be.
The places that make pretty pictures in brochures advertising NC are too expensive for your average North Carolinian to ever visit. Also, BBQ is BBQ--all good, no matter if it’s East or west.
1} Not a fan of Vinegar based Barbecue
2) I don't get "Beach Music", I like most of it, but there is a lot of "Soul Music Lite" that deservedly never were hits and ruins everything.
I kinda like where you are going with #2. I'd restate it as "Beach Music" isn't a valid genre although North Carolinians seem to think it is. It's more of a 'vibe,' a time and place you listen to / dance to music more than a musically separate genre.
#1 - I love it but it's not for everybody.
Best beach is Topsail.
Animal abuse and neglect should be a felony in our state and the law enforced.
The big cities have no real character or culture. It was all killed off over the years, scraped to the ground, and remanufactured by instagram.
Pimento cheese is gross
The Outer Banks are kind of boring, cost us too much money to maintain, and are too far away.
Please see my reply to Dan's similar observation. The "boring" part is the reason to go there, i.e., get shy of the madding crowd.
In fairness I love the "boring" aspect, there's just better "boring" beaches.
College sports aren't a substitute for pro sports.
Especially true of the Panthers and Hornets...high school teams would be a better substitute for either.
Gastonia should be the state capital.
hot take, elaborate?
Tell me you haven’t been to Gastown without telling me you haven’t been to Gastown. 😄
Oh hell no! I hope you’re kidding.
Don't tell anyone that there are actually more people living in NC than in NJ. I can't stand that!!
The only thing worse than the city of Charlotte itself, are the self righteous original "Charlotteans" that think their special for being born here. B!t£h they recruited me, moved me and rewarded me to be here because this city has no talent.
We welcome people from other states to move to the great state of NC. I just wish they wouldn't bring habits and norms here that caused the place they moved from to be an undesirable place to live.
New to NC, and the “true” South - I’m from OK, which, contrary to the belief of most Okies, is actually the Southwest, but I digress... What is the deal with people calling you “Mr.” followed by your First Name? It’s infantile. Worse, if you have a first name that can be used as a last name, it’s just confusing as hell. Just stop. My name is Louis, not “Mr. Lewis.”
It’s a sign of respect.
See Susie Verrill’s post above.
I’m not from here, but I got here as quickly as I could...
Even Brian Bosworth wasn’t as overrated as Cookout
I don’t think CookOut got the memo a few years back when the state legislature didn’t renew that stupid “all hamburgers must be cooked well-done” law that was on the books for years. All hamburger patties from them taste like charcoal, when they don’t HAVE to.
The mountains are pretty, the coast is pretty, but everything in between kinda sucks.
Also, I love pulled pork, but beef brisket is the best thing to barbecue
The two Carolinas were likely not legally separated properly. So there should probably be some kind of convention or conference to settle it, or else Charleston is still the capital
As a transplant who has lived in NC for 25 years, I still don’t get all the sweetness--sweet tea, sweetheart, sweet potatoes, Krispy Kreme, sweet potato pie . . . . NC cooking and NC culture are overcome with sweetness.
Time to dissolve the ACC and break up the "Big Four". Duke to the Big East, UNC to the SEC, NC State to the Big 12, and Wake Forest to a Group of 5 conference (AAC, Conference USA, Sun Belt).
Yea.. you’re gonna be dammed. Not from ‘round here, I’m guessin’
North Carolina is not geographically in the South. People seem to think it's closer to Florida. You'll find this out the first time the temperature dips into the 30's.
I beg to differ. That bottom boundary on Pennsylvania is the mason Dixon line.
food scene here sucks, its fast food nation domination.
most abysmal drivers in all of 🇺🇸 they all need student driver stickers on their bumpers.
most are know it alls who think NC is the entire country. seems like they never left the state like ever.
Obviously, the folks who created the Mason Dixon line only knew politics and didn't know much about geography or the weather, not that they would back then.
Food Lion fried chicken is better than Bojangles.
I would never kid around about Gas-town. Ranlo, Lowell, Spencer Mountain - that’s fine to kid around about them. But not Gtown (the soon-to-be capital of the Tar Heel State).